Question Part 1: I'm quite desperately needing some advice...my girlfriend was sexually abused as a child by her step father and she continued the relationship (even eventually giving her "consent" to sex up to the age of 19) when she finally left...

I read your article on the Multidisciplinary [Multidimensionality] nature of sexual abuse and a lot of what you said made sense to me...where can I find more information on sexual abuse from this view point?

I would describe my girlfriend's relationship with her father as the most important romantic relationship of her life so far. He was kind and gentle (most of the time), and always made her feel special (obviously what she needed)...and it was only because she wasn't allowed to tell anyone that she realized it wasn't "ok" in relation to the rest of society...otherwise the relationship is exactly as if he was married to her mother and was having a secret and much more important affair with her (she was his real love I'm told)...still not healthy, but as an adult, depending on your society, this may even be accepted...he was completely emotionally manipulative, but she is unwilling to become aware of that and still finds a great need within herself to "fulfill his needs" whether they be sexual, emotional or financial. She likes to feel needed and isn't willing yet to see that love and need are not the same thing...

Now he is destitute and needing our help and she wants to help (as she has all along) and she's willing to do so at the expense of herself (as she has all along) and I'm getting the feeling that the only way she might learn to be self-determined in this situation, meeting her needs and not just his, is to let her go down this road again and possible make different choices to those she made as a child...how can I teach her how to be self-determined if I tell her what to do?

But this is going to be a particularly difficult path to follow and I'm wanting to read more about sexual abuse from your standpoint as I feel the knowledge gained would help me in the months ahead...

As I say, I have found most of the information on sexual abuse to very stereotypical and yours was the first article I read which acknowledged how the "abuse" served the child as much as it did the adult...this is not to say that I view the relationship as healthy, but it was a choice she made and as long as I see her as an "innocent" victim I don't allow her to make different choices now in the present - does that make sense?

What would you suggest? What would you say to my suggestion that instead of banishing him from our home, that I invite him into it - maybe not directly into our home, but maybe I pay for his rent and organize for her to take food to him and see him often? Has anyone that you know of ever done this? I think she may have the strength to say no this time, but I know that either way its going to be intensely traumatic for both of us and that I'll need to learn to "share" her with him...

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give me.

Answer Part 1: Unfortunately, I am not aware of any websites or books that look at incest from the perspective that I present. I combined information from many sources to come up with the conclusions I did. I tried to look at things logically, not emotionally. I realized some things just did not add up. My concepts are perhaps controversial, though I have not received a negative response from people. Society's stance on incest is so unyielding that it is almost impossible to present another perspective. It is only because of the Internet I can say what I do, I believe.

Please keep in mind when reading the following that I am not a therapist or a professionally accredited sex professional. Consider what I say as ideas, not facts.

If you remove the sexual aspect from the relationship between your girlfriend and her father, you will still find an unhealthy relationship, if what you said is true. Many would simply say, of course it is an unhealthy relationship because of the incest. Incest is the cause of all the problems. If they never had sex, everything would be okay. It is not that simple.

Relationships like this exist in the absence of physical sex. Many fathers make their daughter dependent on them for validation and acceptance. They do not support their daughter; they make their daughter dependent on them. The girl comes to see herself through her father’s eyes. This is a "traditional" father/daughter relationship that resulted in girls seeking out husbands, and then children, for acceptance and validation. They had no self worth. They existed simply to serve men, regardless of whether he is father, husband, or son. It is perhaps their sex drive that drives most women away from their father’s arms to that of a husband. Your girlfriend may not of had a need to seek out a sexual partner as she already had one.

One thing to consider is what caused her to leave at nineteen. Many things during puberty serve to separate parent from child. Some of it is the result of hormonal changes; that is my understanding anyways. Some of it is a desire for autonomy, a desire to no longer be the child. The desire to do what an adult can do but not a child.

She is in a consensual relationship with a man. The fact that he is her father is important from one perspective but not another. Yes he is her father, but he is also her husband. As long as those two roles are combined, it will be confusing and unhealthy. The father is supposed to help prepare a girl for adult life then let her go. Even is they have a sexual relationship, it needs to be a phase in her life, it needs to end at some point. Keep in mind the line between intimacy and sex is broad and fuzzy. It is no different than him teaching her to drive a car or play a sport. Eventually she should outgrow him. Even if they continue to engage in a sport or sex, they do it as adults, not parent and child. She will forever love and care for him, but he is a smaller part of her life, replaced by her own life, family, and career.

In your girlfriend’s case, things have gone full circle, where he has become the child and she the adult. As an adult he cannot control her, but as a child he can. He has become dependent on her. This is true if it is his own actions that have resulted in his current situation. He may have feared losing her to you. Am I wrong in believing you have an intimate relationship with her? As an adult he could not compete with you, but as a helpless child he can.

I would not say she is "innocent," as you state. She is an adult and should be held accountable for her actions. She is an adult who knows right from wrong. If you say she is innocent, that means she never needs to change because she is doing nothing wrong. If she does not accept responsibility she will eventually pay a much higher price for her actions. If you say she is innocent, you will not provide any motivation to change.

You have it tougher than she. It is often the family or partner of the person with the "problem" that pays the highest price. You know what she is doing is wrong and harmful but you care for and love her anyway and want to protect her. Because you have feelings for her, you want to be near her but her actions cause you pain. If you try to correct her actions, you risk losing her. If you do nothing, things may get worse. It is tough because you want to be supportive of her, but not him. "Unconditional love" may cause you harm. As with "Tough Love," sometimes you have to close the door on the one you love. Do not allow yourself to become part of the problem.

Whatever you do, you do not want to enable or support her problem as then it becomes your problem. You become his victim as well as her. If he has created the situation he is in or has the means of fixing it, I would suggest not providing for his material needs. If he is victimizing her, it is better he ends up on the street alone and hungry. If she wants to support him, that is her choice and she must face the consequences. While it may cause you great pain initially if she chooses him over you, in the long run it will be better for you, and possibly her. She may find he can no longer meet her needs, which is most likely the case. If she leaves you for him, but comes back to you, accept her back only once. Do not allow her to abuse you.

If he is not the cause of his current situation, they are out of his control, then it may be best to treat them as a "typical" father and daughter. You do not want to be selfish, as that could backfire. You may need to share her with him, emotionally. They have had a relationship much longer than the two of you.

One problem you may face is that she may feel you are jealousy of him and trying to force them apart. While their relationship may be unhealthy, it has existed much longer and is probably stronger than the one between you and her. Be sure your comments and actions are based on things other than emotion. If you cannot rationalize what you say and do, you could run into trouble. This is easier said than done, since you are emotionally involved. Do not allow your own insecurities drive you apart.

You also do not want to become the parent to one or both of them. You should not be taking care of either of them. You should need and support her as much as she does the same for you. It should be a mutually supportive relationship. You do not want to set rules and give rewards and punishments. Do not baby her, treat her like the adult she is or should be.

In regard to the sex, you want to know if he educated her about sex and taught her the pleasures of her body or simply used her for his own benefit. Typically, many abusers teach young girls how to perform fellatio since “she needs to know,” but he is the one the benefits at the time. Did he teach her to feel good about her body and how it could give her pleasure? Was her pleasure just as, if not more, important than his? He should have been a teacher in the purest since, not an abuser. Is she a healthy sexual adult as a result?

As a child, your girlfriend was much easier for her father to control and manipulate than her mother, most likely. She was naturally more physically and emotionally dependent than her mother probably was. She may even have been more sexual, not knowing otherwise. Her father likely took advantage of these qualities.

I have no clue as how to guide her in the right direction. That is beyond my knowledge. You may want to contact a support group in your area for family members of sexual abuse victims. They should be able to direct you to someone who can help.

You need to make clear your feelings for her and your need for her. You need to let her know you want her. If she is worth fighting for, fight for her. Do not let him win without a fight.

Question Part 2: Thank you so much for your ideas, they are very useful to me...and you are right, she is my partner, we live together and plan to start a life together and so on...we've only be going out a year so I suspect it’s a good thing to have this played out now rather than later...

What caused her to leave at 19 was that she desired her own independence and I think he ran out of cash and couldn't support them (her mother left when she was 16 and left them all with him)...when she left she decided she was gay (maybe to please him?). This is problematic because it means neither her or him have ever had to "end the relationship"...in the meantime though, she has had sex with one other man and also kissed one (a carbon copy of her father and this happened a year ago)...and I think in her head, on a sexual levels, it has ended...on other's though, it has not...and as you say, the sexual side of things was not "abuse" so it doesn't really solve the problem...

She thinks I will ask her to choose between him and me...I think the choice itself is a bit fucked surely? Why would one ever have to choose between a lover and a parent if the parent was being a parent? And the lover a lover? Unless of course the parent is acting like a child...

And he did get himself into this position, but she views the help requested as father/daughter type help...I think he's lonely and he wants the relationship back even if he can't have the sex...she treats him like a child, she likes that he needs her (but finds it impossible if I need her in the same way)

This is going to be difficult and I can see him forcing a situation where she spends a lot of time and effort on him and neglects herself, myself and our relationship...as you say as a helpless child he has lots of power (and it was this tactic which got her to consent to the adult relationship in her teens too, he complained of incredible pain in his genitals because of lack of sex, she just wanted to help him), now the pain is simply financial...I will need to be ok with this and wait it out in way - let her know I am there and that I will be there ...then see if she makes the choice to come back (which I believe she will, underneath all of this is a person who finds intense pressure intolerable and she will find as you suggest that he cannot meet her needs)...besides I don't believe that she will ever "leave" me, but I do believe that I will have to share her with him and almost not have an intimate relationship with her so that she has the space to play it out with him...now of course sharing has always been my issue (none of us is without issues), funny how the universe gives us the situations that we need in order to sort out our issues...in this case if I don't sort out my issue there's no way she'll be able to sort hers out ...

And he didn't ask her to have sex with him until she was around 17 (when her mother left)...before that he always touched her...this means that its her own pleasure she has problems with and where her guilt lies...this is truly one of the most difficult and complicated situations I've ever seen...

And its gonna be quite the bravest thing I've ever done, so here goes, wish me luck :-)

Answer Part 2: You certainly are facing a complex and challenging situation. I commend you for having the courage to tackle it.

You might want to show your girlfriend the page on my website about sexual abuse and discuss it with her. If she can come to understand that her actions and reactions as normal she may have less to deal with emotionally. If she did consent and experience pleasure it is best if she did not punish herself for doing so. She should know she is not alone in her experiences. In addition to May, there are two other women who report experiencing sexual pleasure as a child during incidents involving adults, in the masturbation section. If she only knows of the common social view of incest and sexual abuse she may feel there is something wrong with her. This will weigh heavily on her mind and further cloud the situation.

A theory I have is that some women choose a lesbian identity because of unresolved sexual conflict with their father. This can result from the father engaging in sex with her when she did not want to, or his not doing so even though she wanted to, perhaps subconsciously. This theory is based on the frequency that young adolescent girls idolize their father and have romantic and sexual fantasies involving them. Many are very jealous of other women in their father’s live, including their mother. While they may not actually want physical, reproductive sex, with their father, they do want him all to themselves. This becomes a problem because society does not acknowledge these feelings and actually says they are very wrong. This requires a girl to suppress her feelings because she wants to fit in by being "normal".

Add to this role playing and fantasy in adult lesbian relationships. Why is father/daughter roll playing such a major part of some lesbian relationships? This may extend to include some butch/femme relationships too. On the other side of the coin are lesbians who are not sexual, who only have emotionally relationships with women, not sexual ones. One can understand this if they were emotionally, physically, sexually abused, but what if they were not abused? Is it possible that they cannot function sexually because they have suppressed their sexual feelings for their father? Do some women choose a female sexual partner in order to avoid this conflict?

Is this what your girlfriend has done? I believe your girlfriend is both young and unsure of her sexual identity. She explored sex and relationships with male partner(s) even after accepting a lesbian identity. As you said, she has chosen to be a lesbian versus knowing she is one because of physical sexual attraction to women.

A girl’s first male sexual partner is always her father or father figure and her first female sexual partner is her mother or mother figure. This is true for all women, including lesbians. How each girl learns to interact with these partners, or does not learn, influences her adult relationships. If a girl does not have a healthy emotional, physical, and even sexual relationship with those who raise her, can she have a healthy relationship as an adult? I am not implying that adults and children should have full sexual relationships. I am just acknowledging the sexual component of the relationship. As I mentioned prior, the line between intimacy and sex is both broad and fuzzy. Whatever skills a girl learns, good or bad, about interacting with men and women from her parents she brings into her adult relationships.

Given your girlfriend’s past and present relationship with her father, and mother, is she ready for a relationship with you? It is my belief that you can have a relationship as friends, but not as adult sexual partners. If she is not able to turn her relationship around with her father, and make it healthy, she will have to end it all together, or it will forever interfere with her relationships with others.

We have discussed her relationship with her father because that is the apparent cause of her problems now. What we have not looked at is her relationship with her mother or her mother’s roll in all of this. I am guessing her mother was not an affectionate or sexual person. She may have contributed to her husband seeking out her daughter as a romantic and sexual partner. If her mother was not affectionate and emotionally cold, she may have caused her daughter to seek affection from her father who in turn was seeking affection. While the father may have done physical acts, her mother may have done emotional things to cause the current situation. There are mothers who are happy when their husband turns his attentions towards her daughter, as she has her own problems, involving intimacy and sex. Do not focus on her father exclusively.

I recommend that you do not try to "save" her. You should only be a supportive bystander.

Her Reply: Thank you for your help and advice...I agree about not trying to "save" her, but I do think my support can be very valuable to her right now...and I think part of this is my issue too, I'm a bit possessive and it makes it difficult for me to share her with anything or anyone - maybe that's why we chose each other, me to teach her to let go of her father, her to teach me to let go of her?

I think you're right about her mother, she has definite problems with intimacy and sex...and definitely neglected her as a child...so she was looking for the love of someone and simply received it in an inappropriate manner...I think he was looking for someone he could control and so the love between them became a kind of fish-hook love...she still struggles with the repercussions of this...but at least on this level she is aware...

Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice...I'll write again I'm sure :-)